The key point of democracy isn't voting, it's participation.
If you have participation, where all are heard, and real work is made for a consensus - voting doesn't have to have centre stage. Voting makes sense for simple decisions, where little discussion is needed. It's a pretty poor way to foster participation (You voted, you lost, you can't complain).
That said, sometimes the sheep needs to be eaten. If that is taken literally, that a group votes to eat one of its members - the situation should be rather extreme - like people stranded without food. One might agree to draw straws. But it would be much better to avoid such situations in the first place...
The key point of democracy isn't voting, it's participation.
Your right to vote is the mechanism by which your right to participate is ensured.
If you have participation, where all are heard, and real work is made for a consensus, voting doesn't have to have centre stage
And yet in practice, the only reason for a political party to hear all (including its opposition) and to seek consensus is to seek the number of votes need to pass a rule. Therefore, in practice, voting does take the center stage.
>> The key point of democracy isn't voting, it's participation.
> Your right to vote is the mechanism by which your right to participate is ensured.
It's a shallow form of participation. Being educated, informed, and being part of the decision process - drafting bills, finding alternatives - forming political parties, being part of committees , being available for election, all the work that is done before a vote his held is arguably more important. And if most people aren't involved in that part, you don't IMNHO have what can reasonably be called a real democracy.
It's of course much easier to just present "the people" with the choice of a red or green bike shed, rather than discuss alternative economies that might make the nuclear plant less relevant.
And how does the average voter get involved in "drafting bills" I suspect that there are very few of us on HN who have ever done something like that.
In representative democracies [1], they usually don't get involved at all. You delegate your rights to someone else (eg members of parliament), who then act on your behalf, so to speak.
The alternative of direct democracy [2] is much rarer.
> And how does the average voter get involved in "drafting bills"
This is exactly my point - real democracy means engaging in the political decision process on all levels, and taking/feeling a sense of ownership of/to it.
>> Your right to vote is the mechanism by which your right to participate is ensured.
> It's a shallow form of participation.
It's not a form of participation at all.
>Being educated, informed, and being part of the decision process - drafting bills, finding alternatives - forming political parties, being part of committees , being available for election, all the work that is done before a vote his held is arguably more important.
You are arguing about how the right to vote is exercised. With the right to vote as a given, I would agree with you on all of the above.
However, none of the above is relevant without the right to vote (and other rights), hence why I'm arguing that the right is more important.
Your right to vote is the mechanism by which your right to participate is ensured.
That's just one mechanism. Your right to participate is also ensured by freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and the ability to get your name on the voting ballot.
If you have participation, where all are heard, and real work is made for a consensus - voting doesn't have to have centre stage. Voting makes sense for simple decisions, where little discussion is needed. It's a pretty poor way to foster participation (You voted, you lost, you can't complain).
That said, sometimes the sheep needs to be eaten. If that is taken literally, that a group votes to eat one of its members - the situation should be rather extreme - like people stranded without food. One might agree to draw straws. But it would be much better to avoid such situations in the first place...