By not getting vaccinated you are pushing the onus of responsibility to society.
When you occupy a bed in a hospital for a preventable disease (like covid post-vaccine) you are a detriment to society. You are occupying precious resources because you were dumb. Just dumb. No ifs or buts - we need to start calling out stupidity again.
We already handle people occupying hospital resources with self inflicted diseases, like lung cancer or liver trouble, by taxing the shit out of cigarettes and liquor (in countries where universal healthcare is a thing). We can’t put a covid tax on people I guess, so we might as well mandate vaccinations for everything we can.
People who believe vaccines aren’t at least reducing mortality by 10x to 100x can just maintain their stupidity and become pariahs to society. I idgaf anymore. These people are dumb and I won’t waste another breath defending them. It is immediately proven from vaccination campaigns globally that the impact vaccines have is at least 10x reduction in mortality. Vaccines would be worth it even if they killed 1/2 of the numbers of covid, bout they don’t. They are a HUGE reduction.
> From 1999–2000 through 2017 –2018, US obesity prevalence increased from 30.5% to 42.4%. During the same time, the prevalence of severe obesity increased from 4.7% to 9.2%.
> Obesity-related conditions include heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes and certain types of cancer. These are among the leading causes of preventable, premature death.
> The estimated annual medical cost of obesity in the United States was $147 billion in 2008. Medical costs for people who had obesity was $1,429 higher than medical costs for people with healthy weight.
Also, if the government really cared about the health of the population, why aren't they mandating exercise or dietary health?
This is just a fallacious argument but you know this. Saying “if x is true then why not y also” is just a false dillemma. Not sure who you are but potentially just a russian bot troll of some kind.
They are doing that very same thing with sugar taxes in other countries. The USA is not the world and my argument really is focused on countries with free healthcare.
Exactly! Here in Mexico the government implemented sugar taxes and "warning labels" [1] for unhealthy food. I think any sort of "government mandated" approach doesn't work for the USA. I think in the US a better response would be obtained by "credit tokens", tax deductions or some other money related incentive, given that the US is more capitalist.
The interesting issue is how to operationalize such type of incentives program. (i.e. Are you COVID19 vaccinated? we will give you a 5% discount in your taxes next year. You get a unique "discount coupon code" after getting your 2nd shot.)
The previous resources isn’t the ventilators themselves anymore, it’s hospital beds and healthcare staff. Especially healthcare staff.
We’re almost done with the restrictions here in Denmark. You know why? Because people got vaccinated and because we required proof of a test or vaccination to keep the spread down while we were building herd immunity.
It’ll be rich when all that effort was wasted because some new strain mutates in western countries that were full of adult babies.
Not an anti-vaxxer but I agree with you given we'll prob never get rid of covid, and if we somehow manage to mobilize the entire planet to support one unified lifestyle change in any meaningful timeframe, that'd be an extremely radical event in the course of human history, as far as I understand, so I'm not betting on that either. I think you're right to point out that society needs to support the existence of covid beyond vaccine mandates.
I agree that the vaccines pose very little risk to a given individual, even though the possibility of long-term effects have yet to be ruled-out in the scientific literature.
But there are selective pressures & second order effects to consider regarding mass vaccination using the current mRNA vaccines which induce an immune response that is highly targeted towards the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein [1][2].
Combined with the evidence that people who have naturally acquired immunity are protected equally as well as vaccinated individuals [3][4], and that combinations of existing medicines have proven effective in reducing hospitalization and death [5] - don't you think that a strategy focused on vaccinating only the most vulnerable populations across the world would be more rational?
> By not getting vaccinated you are pushing the onus of responsibility to society. When you occupy a bed in a hospital for a preventable disease (like covid post-vaccine) you are a detriment to society. You are occupying precious resources because you were dumb
Why are you focusing on weak predictors of expected medical cost like vaccination status instead of strong predictors like diet and obesity?
Because vaccination is virtually free in comparison to getting people to lose weight.
Vaccination takes minutes while getting someone to lose weight takes months.
Whatever. This whole vaccine vs obesity is a false dillemma and a logical fallacy. And if you’re smart you know this and if you’re not smart it’s not worth the trouble to try and educate you.
You are looking at things from the perspective of being vaccinated. Yeah you are fine because you got vaccinated. But because you are vaccinated, you now pose a risk to all unvaccinated people because you now have a non-zero chance of transmitting.
In other words, by getting vaccinated you pushed the onus of responsibility onto society.
See how this is a zero-sum game? Either everyone gets vaccinated, and maintains that vaccination forever, or someone is still getting the short end of the stick, and society as a whole loses.
I'm sure you personally feel great for getting a vaccination, but that means literally nothing in the grand scheme of things. But clearly getting everyone vaccinated isn't the focus here, not with this post nor this law. The focus is clearly to feel good about yourself if you are vaccinated and look down upon those who aren't. So I'd say keep ngaf, because as long as lawmakers share opinions like those of yourself, this issue isn't going anywhere.
Whether or not SARS-COV-2 becomes endemic and chronic isn't clear, though that does appear a possibility. It's been detected in 40% of tested wild deer population in 2021 across four US states:
A persistent animal reservoir in North America, and presumably, other continents, in multiple species (deer are simply where we've looked so far), would suggest a substantial risk of chronic Covid, continuously evolving and mutating. My own very nonexpert concern is that COVID-19 will be with us for at least another 2--3 years and quite possibly well beyond that.
The vaccine massively reduces the major risks associated with COVID-19. Including the risk of transmission to others.
A fact you seem to be quite pointedly ignoring.
Scale and degree matter.
(That relative rates have to be discussed on HN, a site nominally dedicated to fractions-of-a-percentage conversion-rate optimisations in advertising and sales funnels is ... well, it is.)
Yes but where did I say anything to the contrary? If you don't have COVID, there is a 0% chance of you transmitting the disease. Regardless of if you've had it before or not, once you get the vaccine you now have a > 0% chance of transmitting the disease, and it is a statistically significant chance. All you're doing is posting articles that boast the proficiency and efficiency of the vaccine, which I never discounted. The focus here is that once you get the vaccine, you become a transmitter, doesn't matter that you have lower chance than someone who is unvaccinated. W.r.t someone who does not have COVID, they should take the same precautions against those who are vaccinated as they do for people who are not, and my post is pointing out the hypocrisy of the OP who seems to believe that since they are vaccinated, they are somehow safer to be around than someone who is unvaccinated, while to an unvaccinated person who does not have COVID, these two groups of people should be treated the exact same way.
When you occupy a bed in a hospital for a preventable disease (like covid post-vaccine) you are a detriment to society. You are occupying precious resources because you were dumb. Just dumb. No ifs or buts - we need to start calling out stupidity again.
We already handle people occupying hospital resources with self inflicted diseases, like lung cancer or liver trouble, by taxing the shit out of cigarettes and liquor (in countries where universal healthcare is a thing). We can’t put a covid tax on people I guess, so we might as well mandate vaccinations for everything we can.
People who believe vaccines aren’t at least reducing mortality by 10x to 100x can just maintain their stupidity and become pariahs to society. I idgaf anymore. These people are dumb and I won’t waste another breath defending them. It is immediately proven from vaccination campaigns globally that the impact vaccines have is at least 10x reduction in mortality. Vaccines would be worth it even if they killed 1/2 of the numbers of covid, bout they don’t. They are a HUGE reduction.