You are the one trying to push your definition of engineering.
I provided counter-examples that show engineering encompasses a lot more than your definition.
I simply don't understand why anyone thinks writing software is somehow uniquely not "real" engineering. Somehow we are indoctrinated to believe that it isn't but all the evidence seems to show software engineering is a valid description.
I have no lack of experience watching the fuck-ups made by electronics engineers, or the fuck-ups made by mechanical engineers. You appear to want to define engineering only as certified civil engineering. And I've seen enough of their fuck-ups too, with signatures. In fact I'll ask my bridge engineer friend from uni about it! Unfortunately my bridge building grandad is dead so I can't ask him.
The vast majority of people I encounter with some "engineering" title, in software (or the related "Architect") are in fact not trained as engineers or architects, in any field.
A site reliability "engineer" or a software "engineer" is not an actual engineer just because they've got that in their title or job description. If I were to hire a "chemical engineer" position and instead hired a chemist, or a mechanic, or a rando who's cooked meth, I may end up with things working okay, or I might end up with a serious mess, even if those people I hire call themselves "engineers" (but in fact have no formal training as such).
I'm not sure to what degree credentials matter, but do credentials matter more than "not a god damned bit" ?
I'm not saying the title makes you "not an idiot" -- people gonna people -- but attention to "cost" and "risk" is (theoretically) one of the distinguishing characteristics of engineering training vs ... "mather" or "programmer" or "philosopher".
Yeah, the debasement of meaning is annoying - vice-president is one I hate. Another one that surprises me from the US is "licensed nail technician".
I have a bachelor of engineering title I can use with my name, but that is another distinct type of bullshit.
In New Zealand one relevant legal certification is CPEng which you can apply for after receiving your degree and working for a few years: https://www.engineeringnz.org/join-us/cpeng/ And apparently our government agreed in 2022 to introduce a new licensing regime for engineers doing safety-critical work.
But in an international world, how relevant are certified individuals? When I purchase a stove from a US brand and it catches fire, there needs to be other liability/retribution/corrective systems to deal with the problem. It matters little to me who signed off on the product in the US.
Can I import custom structural steel beams? How many New Zealanders have signed off on this steel construction: https://ccc.govt.nz/the-council/future-projects/major-facili... We need a new stadium because the last one broke. Unfortunately it wasn't insured due to some cockup at the city council (which I suspect had zero retribution on the people that cocked up - I wonder if they signed bits of paper?).
Over-credentialisation is a problem too - where is the right balance? The shift to everyone needing credentials is fucked. My friends (nurses, teachers) literally weep at the absolute trash they have to "learn" for their credential. I also vividly remember the crap I needed to disgorge to get my degree.
I don't know what the answer is, but I honestly believe most credentials are pointless waste and adding more credentials is not actually effective. Neither do I believe that that the anarchy of libertarian free markets are a workable answer.
I provided counter-examples that show engineering encompasses a lot more than your definition.
I simply don't understand why anyone thinks writing software is somehow uniquely not "real" engineering. Somehow we are indoctrinated to believe that it isn't but all the evidence seems to show software engineering is a valid description.
I have no lack of experience watching the fuck-ups made by electronics engineers, or the fuck-ups made by mechanical engineers. You appear to want to define engineering only as certified civil engineering. And I've seen enough of their fuck-ups too, with signatures. In fact I'll ask my bridge engineer friend from uni about it! Unfortunately my bridge building grandad is dead so I can't ask him.