> US national fiction is "the US is a classless society"
I wouldn't say that.
It's just that we believe that there's no birthright caste. Mobility is possible between all classes. Sometimes, though, it's really difficult; just not impossible.
What makes the firepit so heartbreaking is that it’s almost an example of attempting upward mobility the correct way, since — as you note — in the upper echelons of the American class system, taste and style and behavior are what really stratify people. The problem is that the purchaser lacks the class background to understand the shibboleths and so gets led terribly astray. It’s like some poor fool trying to seem very educated and cultured by reading The New Yorker (if you want to impress, try the New York Review of Books, or better the London Review of Books).3 This information asymmetry is what defeats so many attempts at direct social climbing. You can’t make a frontal assault on the class above you. They will see you coming.
It's heartbreaking that hackers (and "technocrats", with the sole exception of the above masters of p-hacking??) have not really taken into their system that cultural mobility >>> economic mobility, given how much easier it is on paper..
(I'd say HN is a laudable attempt tho at uh CULTURAL REVOLUTION that parallels this admins' :)
I think someone else said that even the "Jobs-Powell dynasty" is going to take a couple generations to get close to the Drumpfts? (How about the Vance dynasty?)
Oh. I try to remember theres often an implicit downward in front of mobility
With a birthright caste, you're stuck. Even if you make a lot of money, you're still an untouchable.
In the US, if you make a lot of money, you can become upper class, even if you still have some "rough edges." I actually know a number of folks that have done exactly that.
I also know folks that have done the opposite. Started off on top of the heap, and ended up skint.
We definitely have strata. Hollywood stars represent an interesting one. They are sort of what folks aspire to be, but they are nowhere near the top of the heap.
In the UK, Elon Musk would never be a toff; no matter how much he has, but in the US, he's King of the Hill.
I guess that's where we part ways: just as the US is the world's richest 3rd* world country, I'd call ERM the richest upper-middle-class person in the US, but not exactly upper-class...
(just as a datum point: ERM is the opposite of an éminence grise, in just about any of its senses)
* in the economic sense. In the political sense, by definition the US is 1st world [after what happened to Yugoslavia (former leader of the non-aligned movement) I'm surprised Carney is brave enough to attempt to revive a "2nd World" ... surprised; but pleased!].
Compare: SV founders (including "broligarchs"(?)) will never say "cowboys" in vain, but East Coast financiers might :)
(How familiar are you with 1990s-2010s neo-hipsters?)
Edit: MPAA^W AMPAS will never think secret thoughts of "British upper middle class theatre" outside the occasional hire (for "diversity", these days). Is that why PG and Trevor moved to the UK ;)?
It's not reactionary centrism, but it's also not progressive centrism.. to always say never!
Q. How did the hipster wind up in the emergency room?
A. He fired his 3D-printed gun before it was cool. )
Not sure what you're getting at with cowboys, for me the intersection with SV is/was Gibson's console cowboy — "In the bars [Case had] frequented as a cowboy hotshot, the elite stance involved a certain relaxed contempt for the flesh. The body was meat. Case fell into the prison of his own flesh."
What is the opposite of relentless searching for the frontier? cottage-core?
hmmm: an arbitrary finite automaton can be decomposed into a collection of edges; can we decompose a reasonable philosophy into a collection of memes/greentexts/whatever the kids are doing these days?
(for that matter, I just assume the modal HN'er is ~13 now, but maybe that's an artifact of how the front page dynamic goldfishes the conversation?)
> I'd seen posters from the now fairly infamous 4chan /pol/, or Politics, board raiding other parts of the website in character as minorities or leftists before.
Seems like the idea that your (our?) concept of bigotry could be profoundly misguided could be the real unspeakable..
Have you read Lawrence of Arabia recently?
The dividing line maybe: I see --(well, viscerally) whom you may label-- bigots as adults (who may or may not require medical intervention); and you-- as children? To help you out on the trolling, I'm usually triggered by upper-middle class takes on Christ, like this guy:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46733577
In India maybe. In the US (or some other places) it might be easier to have someone analyze your tax docs. "So what do you do?" is not a popular conversation opener these days..
I wouldn't say that.
It's just that we believe that there's no birthright caste. Mobility is possible between all classes. Sometimes, though, it's really difficult; just not impossible.
Big difference, in mindset.